[Gpdd] HEALTH: Farewell to Hershey and hello to disinfectants

[warmbreath at comcast.net]

The article Penny posted indicates that bleach is the ONLY thing that 
sterilizes, reread that article, keeping in mind some of it is outdated, 
like the treatment and some other parts. Above all that article explains how 
a breeder manages the common bun disease in a large population. Obviously do 
not use hay that is under the bunny for the new pig, it is suspected that 
contaminated hay is a transmission vehicle, and under the bun way ups that 
possibility.  I think that was in Penny's article too, and if not in one of 
the others. I would not use anything for the new pig that Hershey used, it 
should not be in the same room.  The bunny should go get the e.c. titre test 
and should be treated with at least ivermectin. 2 courses 7 to 12 days 
apart. and it should be repeated at least a couple times a year. Dont treat 
her with Panacur as she doesn't have symptoms. Get the pig ivermectin, she 
has been exposed (but transmission is rare but take these precautions 
anyway) besides any new animal coming into the house probably brings mites 
so the ivermectin will fix that. Don't do a mite scrape test, they hurt, 
dont always catch the mites, actually they usually dont catch them, esp. 
cause there are 5 kinds of mites including ear, fur as well as burrowing 
mites. But dont take both of to the vet at the same time or in the same 
carrier. Wash yourself with alcohol gel in between bun and pig at home until 
the first treatments for both have passed, I would guess a month. Handle the 
pig first then the bun. That article suggests water deprivation accelerates 
e.c. infection. I have always recommended 2 water bottles per cage, dont 
give the new pig any of the old water bottles, dont share between bun and 
pig.

Does the bun get floor time? They need it for exercise, and can lose the use 
of their hind legs if living in a cage full time. One of life's greatest 
joys is watching a bun run the "bunny 500" through your house close to the 
speed of sound,  but the house has to be bunny proofed, they eat everything 
in sight. Join etherbun, just type it in Google, read the rules  2 or 3 
times before you post, they are very strict as they are very large. You need 
more bun knowledge, they dont do pigs but will sometimes answer questions 
about them together, sometimes buns and pigs live together but it's not 
recommended as bun's hind legs can kill piggies accidently. Once they have 
both had ivermectin, 2 complete courses, I would let them live side by side 
for the social contact it gives them in separate cages or with a wall in 
between. I am basing that on Penny's article, it needs to be confirmed, I 
may send it to medirabbit in Switzerland for confirmation. Why not ask Dana 
Krempels the question on allexperts.com.  if you find out anything new ot if 
I or any of the stuff I referenced was wrong, tell us, we need to learn from 
this seemingly rare occurrence.

This death is very hard for us, e.c doesn't have to kill, I brought it up 
early on and she wasn't treated for it properly unless you haven't told us. 
She certainly wasn't early enough to save her. Dont blame the bun for 
Hershey's disease, even though she was most probably the vehicle, almost all 
buns carry the disease. Blame the vet, she intimidated you and refused to 
look outside her dog/cat box. She no doubt had to look up every thing she 
did for a pig, probably old texts, if she didn't she's worse than I thought, 
and apparently she never read the articles you brought in from world class 
sources. You need to learn to take charge of a vet, even your own doc, 
outcomes are best when patient and doc are a team.

OH! and get a new vet, one that will promise to read stuff you bring her. 
Get the pig some vet insurance, and the bun if possible since I believe you 
said she is aged and e.c. is likely to become active in older pigs. The bun 
doesn't need an e.c. titre test it wont help you, but at the first sign of 
any of the e.c symptoms starting with stiff legs, not being able to stand, 
kidney problem, head tilt off food, stasis, even Hershey's first symptom she 
was sick was when she wouldn't come out her box. At the FIRST sign of 
illness in you bun take your insurance and savings account and get thee to a 
decent exotics vet, obviously if that happens to the new pig do same. 
Sometimes we miss the first sign, by the second at least.

Since finances are tight for you as many  if not most of us, I recommend a 
savings account $10 month at least set aside for vet care plus the 
insurance, more if you can.  A lot of money was wasted here, overnight at 
the vets for ear flushes!! And no treatments to follow. Please try to find 
an exotics vet, ask us, look on the lists at the House rabbit society as I 
recommended before, find a University Vet School with clinic, vets are 
expensive so the money should be spent on ones that can properly diagnose 
and heal your animals. When you find one, take the bun and new pig in and 
explain your history with them and to make sure we have done the right 
things to avoid the transmission.You must be willing to take charge of your 
vet,(and your own doc). And just dont leave them at a vets, even a good vet, 
bunnies' and pigs often never recover if left at a vet, they only live in 
the here and now and the stress of a new place without their loved ones can 
kill and often does. If your animal needs sub Q fluids or IV treatment stay 
their with them, most etherbun people learn to do sub-Q's at home. Remember 
how Hershey responded when she came home from the vet's?

And finally, did you ask for an e.c. titre test at the end for Hershey? 
She's the one who needs a diagnosis even in death. Did you order a necropsy 
so we could take a stab at finding out what happened to her for sure. See my 
recent posts titled e.c.

I am devastated over her loss too and unhappy mad enough to kick in the TV 
set, and I've felt like that only once in my life. I know you are grieving 
too so  please allow me mine.  Could you not favor us with at least knowing 
what Hershey's meds were and how she died. I'm not dismissing your pain. But 
it is shared with us. In the end YOU are the best defense against the new 
pig getting e.c.  It would have been better if Gary had waited, but I know 
his heart was in the right place.  I dont know, and I never found in all 
those hours of research how long e.c. can remain in environment, it encysts 
itself but I dont know if the cysts' can live out side the bun or pig and if 
so for how long. As a follow up I suggest YOU do that research at etherbun 
or by contacting Rami at www.medirabbit.com, they are wonderful people, 
report back to us what you find out. You are in charge

I'll sign off. light a candle and cry, the tears are starting now, maybe 
they will save the TV